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PNC Financial Services Group (PNC) Q4 FY24 earnings call: guidance and Q&A

Earnings call· Dec 2024 (Q4 FY24)· Financials· Jan 16, 2025

Source: earnings call transcript

Executive summary

The PNC Financial Services Group Q4 FY24 — Solid Quarter, Strong FY24, and Positive FY25 Outlook

PNC delivered a solid fourth quarter, capping a strong 2024 with record revenue and significant capital returns. The bank enters 2025 with positive momentum, driven by fixed asset repricing tailwinds, expected NII growth, and continued expense discipline, positioning for substantial positive operating leverage. While loan demand remains soft, strategic investments in technology and branch expansion aim to accelerate organic growth and enhance customer experience.

Highlights

5
  • Full year 2024 net income of $6 billion or $13.74 per share.

  • Record revenue of $21.6 billion for full year 2024, with fee income growing 6%.

  • Tangible book value per share increased 12% year-over-year to $95.33.

  • Returned $3 billion of capital to shareholders in 2024 through dividends and share buybacks.

  • Estimated CET1 ratio of 10.5% and revised standardized ratio of 9.2% as of December 31.

Concerns

5
  • AOCI was negative $6.6 billion at quarter-end, reflecting the impact of higher rates.

  • Commercial real estate loans declined $1 billion linked quarter, with period-end commercial loans down $5 billion.

  • Total delinquencies were up $107 million or 8% linked quarter, primarily in commercial loans.

  • CRE office portfolio continues to see stress, with reserves increasing to 13% from 11% and expected additional charge-offs.

  • Mortgage revenue declined $59 million linked quarter, primarily due to elevated RMSR hedge gains in the third quarter.

Guidance & targets

CategoryTargetConfidence
Full-year 2025 Spot Loan Growth
2% to 3%
medium materiality
High
Full-year 2025 Average Loan Growth
Stable
medium materiality
High
Full-year 2025 Total Revenue Growth
Up approximately 6%
high materiality
High
Full-year 2025 Net Interest Income Growth
Up 6% to 7%
high materiality
High
Full-year 2025 Noninterest Income Growth
Up approximately 5%
medium materiality
High
Full-year 2025 Noninterest Expense Growth
Up approximately 1%
high materiality
High
Full-year 2025 Effective Tax Rate
Approximately 19%
medium materiality
High
Full-year 2025 Operating Leverage
Substantial positive operating leverage
high materiality
High
Q1 2025 Average Loans
Down approximately 1%
medium materiality
High
Q1 2025 Net Interest Income
Down 2% to 3%
high materiality
High
Q1 2025 Fee Income
Stable
medium materiality
High
Q1 2025 Other Noninterest Income (excluding Visa activity)
$150 million to $200 million
low materiality
High
Q1 2025 Total Revenue
Down 1% to 2%
high materiality
High
Q1 2025 Total Noninterest Expense
Down 2% to 3%
high materiality
High
Q1 2025 Net Charge-offs
Approximately $300 million
medium materiality
High
Full-year 2025 Net Interest Margin
Approaching 3%
high materiality
Medium
Full-year 2025 Deposit Growth
1% to 2%
medium materiality
Medium
Full-year 2025 Share Repurchase Pace
$100 million to $200 million per quarter
medium materiality
High

Segment performance

SegmentRevenueYoYQoQMargin
CRE Office Portfolio
Balances declined as the company continues to manage exposure down. Criticized loans and nonperforming balances also declined. Despite lower charge-offs in Q4, stress continues, and additional charge-offs are expected. Reserves increased due to continued valuation adjustments.
Balances: declined approximately $500 million linked quarterNet loan charge-offs: $62 million (Q4 FY24), down from $95 million (Q3 FY24)Reserves: 13% (Q4 FY24), up from 11% (Q3 FY24)
——-7%—

PNC operating KPIs by quarter

PNC operating KPIs stated on its earnings calls, by fiscal quarter
KPIThis call Dec 2024 Q4 FY24 Mar 2025 Q1 FY25 Jun 2026 Q2 FY26 Sep 2026 Q3 FY26Change vs prior quarter
Common equity tier 1 ratio (CET1)
10.5% We remain well capitalized with an estimated CET1 ratio of 10.5% as of December 31. Source: earnings call transcript
10.6% We remain well capitalized with an estimated CET1 ratio of 10.6% as of March 31. Source: earnings call transcript
9.9% And we remain well capitalized with an estimated CET1 ratio of 9.9%. Source: earnings call transcript
9.8% We remain well capitalized with an estimated CET1 ratio of 9.8%. Source: earnings call transcript
-0.1 pt
Net interest margin
2.75% Net interest income grew by $113 million or 3%, and our net interest margin was 2.75%, an increase of 11 basis points. Source: earnings call transcript
2.78% And our net interest margin was 2.78%, an increase of 3 basis points. Source: earnings call transcript
2.96% Our net interest margin was 2.96%, an increase of 1 basis point. Source: earnings call transcript
2.94% Our net interest margin was 2.94% and decreased 2 basis points. Source: earnings call transcript
0 pt
Return on tangible common equity (ROTCE) ——
17.9% Our tangible book value was $111 per common share, up 2% linked-quarter and up 7% compared with the same period a year ago, and our return on tangible common equity at 17.9% in the second quarter. Source: earnings call transcript
18%+ And our return on tangible common equity was more than 18% in the third quarter. Source: earnings call transcript
—

Operating figures the company stated on at least two of the calls shown, checked against each call's transcript. Click a figure to read the sentence. A dash means it was not stated that quarter.

Deals & partnerships

TCW Strategic partnership to fund clients through alternative vehicles.

PNC formed a partnership with TCW to provide alternative funding solutions for clients, particularly in instances where private capital might otherwise draw clients away, ensuring PNC retains the client relationship and associated fee income.

Risks & headwinds

CRE Office Portfolio Stress Ongoing, future quarters

Balances declined 7% or approximately $500 million linked quarter; reserves increased to 13% from 11%; expected additional charge-offs.

Mitigation:Actively managing exposure down; increased reserves to 13%; believe adequately reserved.

Market Uncertainty Ongoing

Not quantified, but cited as a factor for soft loan demand.

Mitigation:PNC's balance sheet is well positioned; adequately reserved for credit risk; strong capital levels provide substantial flexibility.

Regulatory Environment Ongoing

Not quantified.

Mitigation:Advocating for regulators to focus on core risks and follow the law; industry has sued on certain proposals.

What to watch in Q1 FY25

NIM Trajectory

FY25
Current 2.75% (Q4 FY24)
Target Approaching 3% by end of FY25

Why it matters

NIM expansion is a key driver of NII growth and overall profitability, especially with expected rate cuts.

We do expect NIM to continue to increase through the course of 2025. We've approached that 3% level in the past, and I think it's logical to assume that we'd get close to that.

Find out whether PNC delivers this. Inve re-checks your case every morning.

Q&A highlights

Inquired about industry deposit trends, PNC's ability to gain retail deposit share, and the drivers/cadence of NII guidance, especially the fixed asset reprice.

Rob Reilly expects 1-2% deposit growth for FY25, with seasonality. Confirmed fixed asset reprice is balanced and continues through 2025 and beyond. Q1 NII decline is 75% due to fewer days, balance from seasonal commercial deposits.

“Our guide for the full year and for the first quarter is very conservative in terms of loan growth. Average loans for the full year stable, spot up 2% to 3%.”

asked by John McDonald · answered by Robert Reilly

3 min read 7 chapters

Detailed narrative

Strategic Investments & Expansion

PNC is actively investing in its future growth, including the rollout of a new online banking platform designed to enhance customer experience and enable rapid product innovation. The company is also doubling its new branch builds to gain scale in fast-growing regions and recently announced its entry into the Salt Lake City market.

These initiatives are part of a broader strategy to accelerate organic growth and improve operational agility, with investments focused on cloud-native and micro-service based solutions.

Fixed Asset Repricing Tailwinds

The bank anticipates significant tailwinds from fixed asset repricing over the next couple of years, which is expected to contribute to record Net Interest Income (NII) in 2025. This strategy involves reinvesting runoff from short-term duration securities and swap portfolios into higher-yielding assets.

Management noted that they are using forward-starting swaps to lock in future replacement yields, effectively securing higher rates for maturing fixed-rate assets through 2025 and beyond, assuming rates follow the forward curve.

Credit Quality Management & CRE Office Portfolio

While overall credit metrics remain sound, the Commercial Real Estate (CRE) office portfolio continues to be a focus due to ongoing stress and lack of demand for office properties. PNC is actively managing down its exposure, with balances declining 7% or approximately $500 million linked quarter.

Reserves on this portfolio increased to 13% from 11% in the prior quarter, reflecting continued valuation adjustments, and the bank expects additional charge-offs, though the size will vary quarter-to-quarter. Management believes they are adequately reserved for this segment.

Deposit Growth & Funding Costs

Average deposits increased by $3 billion or 1% linked quarter, primarily driven by continued growth in interest-bearing commercial balances. Noninterest-bearing deposits remained stable at $96 billion, representing 23% of total average deposits. The rate paid on interest-bearing deposits declined 29 basis points to 2.43% in Q4, reflecting pricing actions aligned with Fed rate cuts.

The cumulative deposit beta through December was 47%, with expectations for it to remain in the high 40% range during the anticipated rate-cutting cycle.

Operating Leverage & Cost Discipline

PNC successfully generated positive operating leverage for the full year 2024, exceeding its continuous improvement program (CIP) cost savings goal of $450 million. For 2025, the company has set an annual CIP target of $350 million, which will continue to fund a significant portion of its ongoing business and technology investments.

This disciplined approach to expense management, combined with expected revenue growth, positions PNC to deliver substantial positive operating leverage in 2025.

Capital Management & Flexibility

The bank maintains a strong capital position, with an estimated CET1 ratio of 10.5% and a revised standardized ratio (including AOCI) of 9.2% as of December 31. PNC returned $3 billion of capital to shareholders in 2024 through dividends and share buybacks, including approximately $900 million in Q4.

The company plans to continue share repurchases at a pace of $100 million to $200 million per quarter in 2025, emphasizing its capital flexibility and commitment to shareholder returns.

Loan Demand & Utilization Trends

Despite strong unfunded commitment growth, actual loan utilization remains low across commercial segments, including C&I, middle market, and specialty businesses. Management attributes this to the total cost of capital, ongoing market uncertainty, and the attractiveness of capital markets for large corporates.

This conservative outlook on loan growth (stable average full-year loans for 2025) is a key assumption in the bank's guidance, as management has opted not to forecast an inflection point for increased utilization.

Summary of the company's earnings call; see how call summaries are prepared. Not investment advice.